Hero or Dick
Welcome to Hero or Dick — the podcast where Kate and KJ dig into the strange, funny, and unforgettable corners of history, pop culture, and everything in between. Each episode, we take on famous (and infamous) figures, events, and ideas, breaking them down with humor, insight, and just enough irreverence to ask the question that matters: hero…or dick?
From legendary icons to the odd stories behind movies, music, and everyday life, we pull the threads that make people and moments extraordinary. Along the way, you’ll get Kate’s infamous Fast Five lists (and KJ forgetting his), personal anecdotes, and plenty of chances to weigh in with your own takes.
Ever wondered if a celebrated artist was secretly a scoundrel? Or if a movie villain actually had a point? We live in those gray areas — the messy, funny, human places where the line between hero and dick isn’t so clear.
Join us bi-weekly for deep dives, playful banter, and the kind of conversations that leave you laughing, thinking, and maybe a little surprised. Whether you’re here for the history, the pop culture, or just to see if Kate finally got her car back, Hero or Dick is your go-to podcast for stories that entertain as much as they reveal.
Write in with your suggestions, stories, or just a friendly hello at heroordick2023@gmail.com.
Subscribe today — because life, like our podcast, is never just black and white.
Thanks!
~ Kate & KJ
Hero or Dick
Hero or Dick - S3, Ep. 10 - Pee-wee Herman
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The gray suit. The red bow tie. The unmistakable laugh that echoed through living rooms every Saturday morning. Paul Rubens created more than just a character in Pee-wee Herman—he built an entire world that shaped a generation.
Welcome to another episode of Hero or Dick!
Whether you grew up singing along to the theme song (secretly performed by Cyndi Lauper!) or discovered Pee-wee through Tim Burton's cult classic film, there's no denying the lasting impact of Paul Rubens' creation. Check out our latest episode where we celebrate this complicated cultural icon who taught us that being different isn't just okay—it's something to celebrate.
Thanks for your support!
~ Kate & KJ
Vacation Stories Begin
Speaker 1Welcome to another buzzworthy podcast .
Speaker 2It's called it's called Hero or Dead .
Speaker 1That's what it is , season 3 , episode 10 . Yeah , and there's a buzz in the background which drives me nuts every time .
Speaker 2I don't even hear it .
Speaker 1And the listeners ? I hope won't either , but that's because , with our 52 downloads last week 52 ? 52 downloads , that's 52 ? 52 downloads , that's like one a week we're going to be able to afford real equipment one day . No , no , you're right , no . But that's okay , so how's life ?
Speaker 2Oh , life is good .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2I'm just coming back from vacation . I think like if you look back at all our episodes , every other one she's coming back from vacation , but that's awesome this year so far was heavy vacation Good Puerto Rico , Georgia , and then I just got back from a two-week road trip .
Speaker 1Road trip .
Speaker 2With my BFFs from junior high .
Speaker 1No kidding . Yeah , yeah we had a great time . How do you keep friends that long ? I'm friendly .
Speaker 2I guess no kidding . Yeah , yeah , we had a great time . How do you keep friends ?
Speaker 1that long I'm friendly .
Speaker 2I guess Not always . Yeah , no , but I don't know . I don't Just these three . Okay , just these three , that's your crew . I do have other people that I keep in touch with , but these three for sure .
Speaker 1That's your core group . Mm-hmm , you want to do any shout-outs or anything for ?
Speaker 2them . No , they know who they are . They are the original four Awesome . No less , no more . So , we went and we rented a car .
Speaker 1What kind of car ?
Speaker 2We rented a van .
Speaker 1A van .
Speaker 2And it was a mom van . But it was like I wish I would have had this van when my kids were young . This was the sweet ass van . It had cooling seats .
Speaker 1Nice .
Speaker 2And it was hot in Tennessee , it had . You know . You press a button , everything opens .
Speaker 1Doors are automatic .
Speaker 2Oh yeah . And then two days into it we're like oh shit , we got a sunroof , oh there you go yeah . So we had a sunroof .
Speaker 1Did you take turns driving ?
Speaker 2We did yeah .
Speaker 1Did you enjoy driving ?
Speaker 2For the most part . But I'm going to tell you those Tennessee mountains , they are scary to drive in . It's okay , You're on a two-lane . You're like all right if we die . We're going way down , Sure , but whatever . But we're on a two-lane highway . But when we turn to go to this beautiful home that we rented , way up in the mountains , and you turn on our road , which you can't remember the name of the road , it was like one lane for a couple miles and you twist and you turn , it gives you a little nervous .
Speaker 2And at some points you're like I don't see the road . I'm guessing it's beyond here when you're going down , you know . And so you get to this little cul-de-sac and there's maybe like seven beautiful mountain houses . I'm sure somebody built them and rents every one of them out . It didn't seem like anybody really lived there and it was gorgeous Nice .
Speaker 1But it kind of made me claustrophobic . The driving part .
Speaker 2No , being up in the mountains . I'm like what if there's a wildfire ? What if there's a ? One day it rained really hard and I'm like we're going to get washed out what the fuck .
Speaker 1At least you were relaxed .
Speaker 2So yeah , we had that going on . But yeah , beth and I took turns driving One day I drove in Tennessee . It was traffic heavy , for sure , but there were so many people and we were in Gatlinburg is nothing touristy tourist traps . Like mr ripley owns that place , there was ripley's , believe it or not . Then there was a ripley's water park and there was ripley's , whatever good for ripley yeah , ripley is making some money and we were there on a sunday .
Speaker 1What's that ripley's ? Believe it or not ?
Speaker 2that's what I was calling . Yeah , I used to watch it all the time . I actually went to a ripley's believe it or not museum . Have you on the air quotes ? Uh , in um niagara falls , the canadian side a lot of wax figures there uh , there were some wax figures . There was a lot of weird stuff weird stuff like can you believe this piece of Jesus 50 years old , or stuff like that . So it really wasn't for me . But it wasn't a museum per se but I did not go into the any of the Ripley's tourist places we went into .
Speaker 2We actually got there and we timed it perfectly without trying . The Sunday afternoon there was this nice country band playing . There was a bunch of rocking chairs . We sat there for a long time and listen to these four cute little boys play songs like rocky top was it uh , but it wasn't those benjamin boone ?
Speaker 1not benjamin billy benson boone no , it was not Benson Boone . Kate's telling me about this kid . I haven't heard of him , or whatever . She showed me . He sings and flips , he flips and he wears flashy clothing .
Speaker 2He does wear flashy clothing .
Speaker 1He's a dapper dresser .
Speaker 2Yes , I would say that about him too . He's a lovely boy . Check him out .
Speaker 1He's the new David Cassidy .
Speaker 2I don't think people even know who David Cassidy is Well , everyone knows who David Cassidy is . He's like the new kids on the block .
Speaker 1Yeah , I don't know , I can't think of anyone else . Oh , new kids on the block . In my mind , you know , it wanders when we do this .
Speaker 2So , anyway , we went to watch a country band . Then there was this store called the old smoky distillery . So we , and then they have , you know , a million gifts and you can do a tasting there . I was a driver so I didn't taste test , but I did buy some booze there , sure . And then they had another location that we trapped down to in the 100-degree heat and the 5 million people .
Speaker 1It was not as enjoyable , as it sounds . Did you get any fisticuffs with anyone ?
Speaker 2Arguments about jumping on fences . No , I did not argue with anyone . Good .
Speaker 1Proud of you . No , that was good . You were turning a new leaf this year , yeah yeah , no arguments , good job .
Speaker 2No arguments , no problem . You were turning a new leaf this year . Yeah yeah , no arguments , good job . No arguments , no problem . Everybody was really pretty nice . And you know , I felt bad for the families who were there because , honestly , they're not having a good time . They think they're going to go there and have a good time . They're just all arguing .
Speaker 1It's hot , kids are crying .
Speaker 2Things are expensive they don't want to spend any more money , you know .
Speaker 1You've got to have a staycation .
Speaker 2Yeah , so the last day we were at the Tennessee house we did the staycation . Nice , whoa hello .
Speaker 1Somebody doesn't like the staycation . Somebody doesn't like the staycation .
Speaker 2We had somebody trying to talk to you yeah , especially the night before we drank , so we didn't have to go and drink that booze I didn't drink that booze , no , I drank some other booze I drank some other gin , lovely gin lovely gin it was beautiful gin . I wish I could remember the name of it was delicious big , beautiful gin well , no , nothing is big beautiful in my room . I'm sorry , um , I always got , it was the . The label was beautiful . I have flowers on .
Speaker 1It was very botanical tasty was it botanical , because there's a botanical gin yeah , yeah , well , it's all botanical no , the brand the brand .
Speaker 2Oh , is that ? No , it wasn't that brand . No , no , it wasn't , but it was delicious nonetheless .
Speaker 1Gin's a good song and the other day we were in .
Speaker 2Tennessee . I did not drive this day . We took a ride through the I don't know the exact term , it's the Smoky Mountains .
Speaker 1Isn't it the Blue Ridge , or no ?
Speaker 2Well , what we drove was called Cade's Cove Loop and it's where some people I believe the Cade family , I don't know , I'd have to check the history they settled there , and so I mean it's nowheresville and here let's just build a house and we'll farm and we'll raise some animals , and it was gorgeous .
Speaker 1Sounds pretty fun .
Speaker 2It was . There were some , you know , like old buildings that they had made . Yeah , us and a million other people decided to do it that day . That's fine , that's what it's for .
Speaker 1Sure , and you knew that going into it .
Speaker 2We knew that . Going into it , we saw a bear .
Speaker 1In a cage ? No , oh good .
Speaker 2In the field ? Mm-hmm , what In the field ?
Speaker 1What was it doing ? It was rolling around in the field . A real bear , a real bear , you sure it wasn't AI generated .
Speaker 2I'm pretty sure , okay , pretty sure . So we were amazed by that and we were not amazed by the deer , and some people are stopping to take pictures of the deer and we're like get out of the way .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , so lots of wildlife , very beautiful state , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1So lots of wildlife Very beautiful state .
Speaker 2Yes , are you going to move there ? No , okay , no . Two mountainous and their mountains are compressed . Like you go out to Colorado and it's pretty
Exploring Tennessee Mountains
Speaker 2wide open mountains . You know you're going up a mountain , it's a slight , it's a gradual thing . These are like no , you just go straight up .
Speaker 1Violent mountains .
Speaker 2Like I wouldn't want to drive there in ice or winter or anything at all At all . That's kind of skittish when it was raining .
Speaker 1Sure .
Speaker 2You know , there was like rivers going not rivers but small streams going across the road and it's like are we going to get swept away ? We don't know .
Speaker 1And then you have the drop-offs . Yeah , they don't know .
Speaker 2And then you have the drop-offs . Yeah , they don't have many guardrails either .
Speaker 1Oh , it's a way to control the population .
Speaker 2It is I guess .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2So that was vacation .
Speaker 1That's pretty cool . Yeah Well , while you were off dicking around , we were holding the fort down here , me and Randy .
Speaker 2What happened in Albina . I don't know .
Speaker 1Nothing . What did happen ? You know ? Here's something I tried the new smoothie place over there in the kiosk .
Speaker 2Oh , in the kiosk ? Yeah , the kiosks are open . How is that ? I hear it's wonderful .
Speaker 1What the smoothies ? Yeah , yeah , they were really good A little up there , but you know you get what you pay for and it's not much different than the other places doing it Right , but the people were super nice and I had the cafe mocha banana something or another . It was really good .
Speaker 2And what's it called again .
Speaker 1Give them a shout out Blue Blend , blue Blend , blue Blend .
Speaker 2B-L-U-P-I-F-E-N-D-E-L . Right on the river in Alpena downtown , by the 2nd Avenue Bridge , there are six kiosks , something like that . Six , I think , little buildings , and there are six different . They're kind of they're way different . They're not all food .
Speaker 1I showed out to all of them , but I only went in two . The other one was like it had pet stuff in it . Oh , and I bought some carpet deodorizer .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1Which is homemade , which you can make yourself . But it came in a really cool jar and , oh , I bought the ladies , my daughter and my wife . I bought them some earrings . They had their cat earrings .
Speaker 2Oh , at the pet place Yep .
Speaker 1Not for pets , for humans that . But it is a pet place . I mean they have everything in there . I shouldn't say it . They have soaps .
Speaker 2But pet related maybe .
Speaker 1I'm waiting for the Kenobi's one to open .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's coming soon , I hear Look out America .
Speaker 1We're going to eat some donuts .
Speaker 2Oh , do you think they'll have donuts there , or will they just have healthy stuff like apples ?
Speaker 1What that would be horrible , that would be a bad idea . I mean , the apples are delicious . You should make a couple of wood fire kitchens .
Speaker 2Yeah , a lot of stuff , yeah .
Speaker 1Donuts .
Speaker 2Great gift shop .
Speaker 1Yeah , they do they . Do you ever eat the crickets ? I have not Get a bag of crickets .
Speaker 2I have not Go for the donuts . I guess we're here for we do have a topic today , and it's not vacation . I want to just mention too . I went to Kentucky , and Kentucky is a beautiful state too , but you know what they have in Kentucky right now Cicadas Two hatchings , because they hatch every 17 years , and two different . You know , there's like I don't know , there's like the striped one , the bloods and the crypts .
Speaker 2Yeah , exactly so two hatchings are happening at the same time and there were times you got out of the car you couldn't even hear yourself because there were so many damn cicadas and they don't bite , but they're big like a grasshopper and they dive , bomb you .
Speaker 1That wasn't cool . Were you running around like it was ? Yeah , I was .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . And at first we were driving , we kind of took the back roads , which was really fun , and I said what's that noise ? I rolled down my window , I go oh my God , I hope it's not the car , because it was so intense . There was millions of them , wow yeah . So it was kind of scary .
Speaker 1All these moments , but Kentucky is a cool place .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah , you like the South , I do like the South . We met a lovely gentleman in Kentucky no , charlie .
Speaker 1Oh Charlie .
Speaker 2Charlie . We were at a Family Dollar at 8 o'clock in the morning waiting for him to open .
Speaker 1What were you getting ?
Speaker 2We needed some laundry soap . Oh , we were on our way to the airport to pick up the friends and um so we met Charlie who had a sign on on the side of his SUV that said something about delicious honey . And I'm like do you have any of that delicious honey on you ? And he said , well , yes , I do . And so he opened the back of his SUV and shoved you in it .
Speaker 2He couldn't . He was eating something Um he had . He was on his way to the farmer's market and he had delicious honey that we tasted and I bought some , and I bought some lip stuff off of him and then he said wait a minute , wait a minute . And he got out this boom box and he put on two blue honey and serenaded us Are you kidding me right now . I am not , and I loved it . Thank you , charlie , that's pretty cool . You're a big hero . I loved it .
Speaker 1Thank you , charlie , that's pretty cool , you're a big hero , you don't even live a real life . What is this ? People don't have these experiences .
Speaker 2You do if you take the back roads . I guess , yeah , if you , this is what Beth said , and it's so true . If we were on 75 , that would not have happened . No , highway 75 .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah , that would not have happened . I know where we were . We were somewhere in kentucky . I have his card , though , but a dollar general . A dollar general , he was stopping to buy a smiley balloon to put up for him for the . Um , how cool is that ? Yeah , it was great , huh . Yeah , the honey is fucking delicious . Yeah , it's not just delicious , it's really good effing delicious yes , and I love he's saying , along with Beth serenading him to blow honey . I have pictures of it but no video . I wasn't quick enough on the video .
Speaker 1This is why we got to get the website up , so you can , you know .
Speaker 2Okay , so what is our topic today ? Here we're 10 minutes
Alpena's New Kiosks
Speaker 2in what the hell Paul Rubens .
Speaker 1Yeah , if anybody knows who that is .
Speaker 2He also has a character that he plays , called Pee Wee Herman .
Speaker 1I thought it was Pee Wee , pee , wee , pee , wee Herman .
Speaker 2Oh , pee , wee , Pee , wee .
Speaker 1All right , yeah , he was actually born , paul Rubenfeld . Oh , I didn't know that August 27 , 1952 in Peekskill , new York , that I knew , yeah , jewish parents .
Speaker 2Yep , and he just well . He died a couple of years ago , in July of 23 . Yeah , he was 70 years old .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's pretty good . No , not that good . He died of lung cancer or something right .
Speaker 2He got cancer of some kind .
Speaker 1His parents owned a lamp store .
Speaker 2I find that fascinating . They owned a lamp store , but they also had other things they did .
Speaker 1Sure yeah , but that's the coolest part .
Speaker 2That is cool . I wonder if he worked in the lamp store .
Speaker 1I can't do a prompt . I can only do if in the lamp store . Oh , probably I can't do a prompt .
Speaker 2I can only do if no one's listening Okay .
Speaker 1No one's listening , no one's listening . You know what his favorite childhood thing was ?
Speaker 2The circus Yep , mm-hmm , because he lived in Sarasota .
Speaker 1Yep .
Speaker 2And went to the Ringling Brothers Barnum Bailey Circus Museum . Well , that was a winter headquarters then , so he was a frequent visitor . And then he became involved in theater groups and he applied like to Juilliard and some other school and no got rejected .
Speaker 1I thought he got . He studied at Boston University and then Cal Arts , but he didn't get into the acting schools or art school Right .
Speaker 2Juilliard and there was another acting school . So when he went to California Institute of Arts , I thought this was interesting . Some of his classmates were Katie Seagal .
Speaker 1Who's that ?
Speaker 2You know who she is . She's Peg Bundy . Oh , I'm sorry . Sorry , but she's also the matriarch on sons of anarchy . She's on um . She does what cartoon voices . Uh , futurama . She's on futurama , the voice , she does everything she's incredible , she is forgot , I forgot her Katie Seagal , michael Richards , who was Kramer on Seinfeld , and you know who his roommate was .
Speaker 1No .
Speaker 2David Hasselhoff . Come on , it's true .
Speaker 1Oh shit , it's true , that's quite the pairing Knight Rider and Pee Wee Herman . I know what the flip . I love that .
Speaker 2Oh man , if they could have made a mash that together , wow , I'd watch it .
Speaker 1He created
Paul Rubens/Pee-wee Herman Discussion
Speaker 1his Pee Wee Herman character in the Groundlings improv group . Right , he was in there with Phil Hartman .
Speaker 2Phil Hartman . Yeah , and he and Phil Hartman became friends and then they kind of had a falling out because Phil said he wrote more than he got credit or he did more on Pee-wee's show than he got credit for .
Speaker 1Well , it was called .
Speaker 2Pee-wee's Later . Paul Ruhm was like well , you know sorry .
Speaker 1Yeah , it was called Pee-wee's .
Speaker 2Yeah , it wasn't called Phil's you know the other thing that he did before Pee-wee's show that Paul did was so he graduated in 73 , worked at a restaurant , worked as a fuller brushman . A what Fuller brushman ? So you go door to door selling fuller brushes . What's a fuller brush ? I don't know .
Speaker 1I never bought one , but I imagine there's . So he went door to door selling them .
Speaker 2He was a door to door salesman , door salesman and in 1977 , he made 14 guest appearances on the gong show Really 14 . So it's kind of like a regular job too , I love the gong show . That's a whole other topic .
Speaker 1It is .
Speaker 2Okay .
Speaker 1That's a topic . Old game shows . Oh easy peasy .
Speaker 2I'll shut up . And then in in 1980 he did get a small part on the blues brothers movie as a waiter . Um , okay , and so then what did he do ?
Speaker 1well , I think then we get to the hbo peewee herman show right in 1981 right .
Speaker 2So it started out as a nightclub show or an evening . It was a bit raunchier , but it was the same kind of premise the peewee's playhouse but it was for adults oh boy and then I don't know who saw it if you can tone this down a little bit , we'll put it on the air . I think in interviews he's still surprised that that really happened . But once it did happen , all in all in , and it aired from 86 to 90 on Saturday mornings on CBS . We were loyal , loyal fans , cassidy and I .
Speaker 2Still are , but we would watch it every Saturday morning .
Speaker 1You're what helped .
Speaker 2Muppet Babies Garfield Pee Wee's Playhouse .
Speaker 1You're what helped him win 15 Emmys .
Speaker 2That's a lot . That's a lot , yeah , and he also started many careers , because a lot of people Say it , say it , say it .
Speaker 1What you know who ? Oh who , Cowboy Curtis .
Speaker 2I love Cowboy Curtis . I loved him on that show .
Speaker 1I still love him , aka Morpheus .
Speaker 2Lawrence Fishborn , fishborn , fishborn .
Speaker 1M2 .
Speaker 2Hermit Hattie was played by edie mcclure . You know her . She's a great character actress . She has the best line in planes , trains and automobiles . When he's around that car , here she goes . You're fucked . We were just talking about the other day .
Speaker 1Oh god , uh , um s apathia Merkinson . Are you making stuff up now ?
Speaker 2Which you might not recognize her name , but you would recognize her face . She's a law and order . She's like the heavy boss .
Speaker 1Never watched that episode .
Speaker 2Well , I've watched some , but even without even trying you would recognize her . She's been in a bunch of movies . She was Reba the male lady . Captain Carl was Phil Hartman . Opal the little girl . There were three little kids and a little curly-haired hippie girl whose name was Opal . On the show was Natasha Lyonne .
Speaker 1No kidding .
Speaker 2Who is on Poker Face ? Russian Doll . She was on . Orange is the New Black .
Speaker 1That Russian Doll was pretty good . I loved that . It got really it got kind of weird . No more of that show Stagnant . No , it's not on anymore but it was great Never watched . Orange is the New Black .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh , how are you even living ?
Speaker 1I don't know .
Speaker 2It's a really good show .
Speaker 1My wife watched it .
Speaker 2Did Religiously , I think it started out , you know , following one person and that was the premise . That kind of got you sucked in as , like , a white suburbia girl has to go to jail . But then once you got in there and met everybody else and then they gave the backstory of everybody , it was fascinating . That's the best part of that show . So yeah , she was on there . I'm sure there's a few more that I'm forgetting . But then from that show in 1985 , well , in 1985 , 86 , came his first movie , pee Wee's Big Adventure . 1985-86 came his first movie , pee-wee's Big Adventure , which is about
Pee-wee's Playhouse Legacy
Speaker 2his bike is stolen and he has many adventures and meets many friends on his way to find it . It was directed by Tim Burton , who is .
Speaker 1You know you might recognize his name . They seem like a marriage made in heaven , those two .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh , and that movie . I can still watch it and still laugh , even though I know exactly what's gonna happen . It still cracks me up , it's , it's , it's a classic . I'd say it's one of my top five favorite movies . Yeah , for to take on a desert island , I would definitely take that because it makes me laugh every time . Every time he's dancing on the um , on the uh biker bar , bar top tequila , I'm trying to use the phone , okay , so um . And also when he talks to his dog all right spack , all right spack . He's on the phone with the dog .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2Dogs know , dogs know . Yeah , so yeah . And then Tim Burton did also direct his next movie , which was Pee-wee's Big Tap about circus folk . A little darker than the first one , so good Not great like the first one , but it's still pretty good , yeah . So now we got to talk to .
Speaker 2Oh , one thing also I wanted to mention when he was first starting out , he failed an snl audition no kidding and he said it was uh , that year , maybe even the same day , he , he and gilbert godfrey were trying out at the same time and he's like oh we're too similar . And he said I knew Gilbert was going to get it and he did , yeah , so , but you know it worked out for him in the end .
Speaker 1I think what was cool that I remember anyway which isn't a lot about his Saturday show there like all inclusiveness it was like one of the first times I think as a kid I was introduced to like accepting everything at everybody not everything . You know what I mean . But , like all inclusivity , diversity , you know all the characters were different .
Speaker 2Weird stuff and it was okay . Yeah , he actually married one time , so why don't you marry it if you love it ? So much I will . Uh , god's name from peewee came from a one inch harmonica that he owned . It was called the peewee . And then herman came from . Uh , he had a friend who had that last name and and he took that from him .
Speaker 1That's where he got the voice too right From some kids that he grew up with . They used to laugh like that , and so he incorporated that to his character . Yeah , I didn't know if it was Herman , but it was .
Speaker 2Oh , and then what happened ? I don't know ?
Speaker 1Well , yeah , he was jerking off in a theater , an adult theater . He was .
Speaker 2That does make a difference ? I think it does . What do you think people do in an adult theater ?
Speaker 1I've never been in one .
Speaker 2I have not either , but I'm assuming that they're either jerking off or having sex .
Speaker 1Something's going on there .
Speaker 2It's an adult theater .
Speaker 1You don't just go for the story story no , you're not going there to eat popcorn I hope not . That's not butter folks , um , but yeah , that kind of mess things up I think he got ripped off . Well , he was so peewee , herman , that he couldn't be paul rubin sure , and he never was paul rubin in interviews , he was always peewee , herman peewee .
Speaker 1He was in that character and so , yeah , a little bit of that is he needs to own it , but well , I think it ties into he was trying to also I mean , this didn't work but the , the lifestyle he was living for so long he had to suppress the fact that he was gay . Right , and that was not cool because he couldn't be himself . You know , here he is embracing it and letting people know , teaching the golden rule on the show .
Speaker 2Yeah , and that diversity is cool . Everybody should accept everything , or most everything . And then he couldn't even be himself .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , and so because of that he lost his TV show and a lot of other commitments . I don't even think he ever got charged with anything .
Speaker 1If he didn't charge .
Speaker 2he had a very light sentence , so that was in 1991 . And then he kind of had to just hang out . He couldn't do anything because he couldn't get a job . But then he came back hard . In 1999 , I remember this . He was at the MTV Music Awards . Nobody knew he was coming and he walked out and people went they just you know stood up .
Speaker 1Did he say I'm back or something like that ?
Speaker 2No , he said better , better . When the crowd kind of calmed down , he said heard any good jokes ? Oh , that's what it was , because there were so many jokes about Pee Wee so good for him that he took it back . He took it back and then ultimately he was in movies and TV shows . He was in the movie Mystery Men Blow , which Johnny Depp was in . He was in the movie Matilda .
Speaker 1Yeah , he did voice acting for Batman . I think it was right , or was he ? I don't remember , but Nightmare Before Christmas .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , acting for Batman , I think
The Controversies and Comeback
Speaker 2it was right , or was he ? I don't remember . But Nightmare Before Christmas , yeah , and TV shows . He was in 30 Rock .
Speaker 1Portlandia , the Blacklist , then Reno 911 .
Speaker 2Didn't he ?
Speaker 1do , Didn't he do ? Did you already say it ? The big holiday movie 2016 . Pee-wee's Big Holiday .
Speaker 2Oh , no , yeah , he did do that they used digital effects to keep his youthful appearance . Yes , yeah because he did age like normal people .
Speaker 1We don't age .
Speaker 2Although if you have any inkling or any minor interest in Paul Rubin , you should watch the new documentary . It's called Pee Wee as Himself , and it's on Max , did you ?
Speaker 1see it . Yeah , wait , did you tell me about this already ?
Speaker 2Probably . I think , that's how we came to the subject . It was really good and he .
Speaker 1Well , he left all that on purpose .
Speaker 2He did yeah .
Speaker 1So that they could do the show and talked about , about his sexuality , the shame he had about certain things , and then he denied the wrongdoings that he supposedly did right , because then his other scandal was um , and he talks about this in the documentary was , he had gay porn he had a vintage gay , not even porn . Erotica .
Speaker 2Vintage gay stuff . He had a lot of collections of really cool shit . When they show in the documentary he's just got some cool shit , not just erotica , it was like figurines . He just had really really cool shit . But in one of his groupings that he collected was vintage gay no , not pornography erotica , and so because it's vintage too , it wasn't pornographic really . But one thing he had was a picture of a young boy who could have been under 18 . Well , it didn't even show any private parts . Who could have been under 18 , but didn't even show any private parts . But because he had that , the police , there was a really progressive or pushy prosecutor who wanted to make a name for himself and they chose to dwell on that . They pushed charges against him and he did . Uh , I think he again got community time or something , something very minor in the end . You know it wasn't worth all the hassle and the defamation .
Speaker 2he should have sued him for that sure he should have and he always felt , uh , that the controversies , that the controversies overshadowed his creative work , and it probably did . I choose to ignore them . He emphasized that it's painful to be unfairly labeled and judged , and where there's this is here's a direct quote where there's smoke , there isn't always fire . So yeah , watch the documentary , though . Anything more do you have to say about him ?
Speaker 1no , I think I need to watch that documentary you do what's it on , I think it's something max , whatever they're calling that yeah , I don't know . I just yeah . I tried not to focus on that too much . It was easy to find negative stuff like that , but I mean he was involved in Make-A-Wish Foundation and did a lot of charity work for kids .
Speaker 2He did a lot of good stuff and I think too , his show that was on Saturday mornings . How would kids who are living in you know Nebraska ever know anything other than you know one-minded ? Yeah , I don't know Nebraska , sorry Nebraska , but you know , just as an example . Sure Just somebody who lives in a world where they don't get exposed to that diversity . And then they got wow , there's all this diversity , you know .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1He's probably a better role model than some other people right now these times .
Speaker 2Oh my gosh absolutely , and I don't think it's going to come as any shocking revelation when I say that he's a big hero in my book .
Speaker 1He's flawed
Celebrating Pee-wee's Characters
Speaker 1, definitely , but yeah , he's more of a hero than he's a dick . I don't think he's flawed to death , definitely , but he's yeah , he's more of a hero than he's a dick .
Speaker 2I don't think he's flawed . So big hero , big hero Pee-wee .
Speaker 1Big hero Pee-wee Now for Fast Five . We talked about Miss .
Speaker 2Yvonne . That could be the next documentary who we talked about , miss Yvonne . She was on . You don't know who , miss yvonne , she was on . You don't know when miss yvonne is . She was the most beautiful woman in playland girl , I think they said the most beautiful girl in playland . She had big hair , got it , got it okay . So when we talked about her , maybe we didn't . Uh , captain , carl , we talked about ph , phil Hartman and Cowboy Curtis , my favorite Cowboy Curtis story , and Cass . You know I'm going to tell it Because one time Pee Wee was having a sleepover .
Speaker 1Oh yeah .
Speaker 2And Cowboy Curtis didn't know if he could spend the night , and they're like well , you got to spend the night , Cowboy , and he's like but I sleep in the nude .
Speaker 1Oh , my God .
Speaker 2Okay , so they nude , oh my god , oh okay , so they work something out . I think he wore somebody's shorts or something , I can't remember . Yeah , how it got resolved , I don't know , but he sleeps in the nude , yeah , and so , okay , nebraska children , and they're like , wow , people sleep in the nude , yeah . So here's some other characters . Here's some other characters from peewee , other characters from Pee-wee's Playhouse , and you know , I think they're all heroes . Well , maybe not , maybe not . How about Jambi ?
Speaker 1Hero .
Speaker 2Mecha-leka-hi , mecha-hi-noo .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2How about King of Cartoons ? Of course , oh my God , such a hero Cool guy . How about Randy the Puppet , cool guy . How about ?
Speaker 1Randy the puppet yes , he's kind of a dick , yeah , but you know , but they used him as the example Inspiration for comic the insult dog . No , I'm just kidding .
Speaker 2He kind of is like that . And then how about Cherry ?
Speaker 1Oh , come on . I know who doesn't want a hug from a chair .
Speaker 2I know and he was always so friendly here here .
Speaker 1Wait , was it a he ?
Speaker 2Too friendly ? Was it a he ? I don't know .
Speaker 1Maybe it was a them , that's fine .
Speaker 2And how about Penny ? Yeah yeah , penny , the cartoon girl . And one more fact about it they're all heroes in my book . Who sang the do-do-do-do-do the , come on in , grab yourself a bunch . What Cyndi Lauper she did . She did Go back and listen to it . It's obvious that she sang it , but I never thought of it .
Speaker 1I like Cyndi Lauper .
Speaker 2She's doing her final tour , you going .
Speaker 1She's of the era I like .
Speaker 2Cyndi Lauper . She's doing her final tour . You going . She's of the era . I would , but I don't know .
Speaker 1I see your true colors shining through .
Speaker 2Oh , they're shining through .
Speaker 1Whatever ?
Speaker 2Girls just want to have fun .
Speaker 1They do , don't they ?
Speaker 2They do . Alright , we've had enough fun .
Speaker 1Yeah , mr Hero , all those fivers , they're their heroes too .
Speaker 2Heroes , heroes , heroes .
Speaker 1Makes you think back to being a kid .
Speaker 2I miss you . I miss you Peewee , peewee , the end .
Speaker 1All right , Thanks everybody .
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